Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

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Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
Hi all,

I have a problem properly archiving messages. Some are "resistent" to this operation and keep showing up.
At first, I thought this is related to the "group by thread" feature, but also when I disable this, some messages fail to archive.
Anyone can help?

Thanks!
Alex

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 18:34 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
wrote:
> I have a problem properly archiving messages. Some are "resistent" to
> this operation and keep showing up.
> At first, I thought this is related to the "group by thread" feature,
> but also when I disable this, some messages fail to archive.

        Hi,
let me start with some basic questions:

What is your Evolution version, please?

With Archive, I suppose you mean Message->Archive feature, right?

I suppose you've set the messages to be moved to some folder.

What is the account type you archive messages from?

What is the account type you archive messages to?

Could you try to run Evolution from a terminal, to see whether any
error message is shown there, please? I guess there would not be much
related shown, unless a big failure would happen.

        Bye,
        Milan

>


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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
Hi,
many thanks for the fast reply!

* Version is 3.34.1-2.
* Yes, I mean the "Archive" button, and I configured also a folder for that. "normally/ mostly" it works well and messages are moved to the folder.
* The archive folder and the source folder (subfolder of Inbox) are both on the same IMAP server.

I just ran evolution from the terminal and was able to reproduce the error but no such messages printed to the terminal.

Best,
Alex


On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 at 18:49, Milan Crha via evolution-list <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 18:34 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
wrote:
> I have a problem properly archiving messages. Some are "resistent" to
> this operation and keep showing up.
> At first, I thought this is related to the "group by thread" feature,
> but also when I disable this, some messages fail to archive.

        Hi,
let me start with some basic questions:

What is your Evolution version, please?

With Archive, I suppose you mean Message->Archive feature, right?

I suppose you've set the messages to be moved to some folder.

What is the account type you archive messages from?

What is the account type you archive messages to?

Could you try to run Evolution from a terminal, to see whether any
error message is shown there, please? I guess there would not be much
related shown, unless a big failure would happen.

        Bye,
        Milan

>


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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 18:54 +0200, Alexander Kerner wrote:
> * Version is 3.34.1-2.

        Hi,
good, that's not that old version.

> * The archive folder and the source folder (subfolder of Inbox) are
> both on the same IMAP server.

Fine. It means that the message is either copied & deleted or straight
moved to the other folder, depending whether the server supports the
MOVE extension.

Is the message stored both in the archive folder and in the source
folder after it re-appears, or it's not in the archive folder at all?
Some servers (notably Gmail) have pretty aggressive "de-duplication",
based on the Message-ID header, not allowing to store the same message
(well, not really the same, just two messages with the same Message-ID)
in two folders, though I doubt it has any impact here.

You can see what is happening in the background when you run Evolution
from a terminal like this:

   $ CAMEL_DEBUG=imapx:io evolution

It'll print raw communication between the server and the client for all
your IMAP accounts. It's not suitable to be shared in public, due to it
containing a lot of private information, but you can check whether the
message had been copied to the archive folder by searching for the
archive folder name in the log (or for UID COPY/UID MOVE, which should
mention the archive folder name). You can also add "UID" column into
the message list [1] and check whether the UID of the message changed
or not. You can search the captured log for the UID to see what had
been done with it (if I recall correctly, multiple folders can have the
same UID, thus it can be tricky). The log itself can be confusing, I
just mention it as a way to see what is done in the background, between
the Evolution and the server.
        Bye,
        Milan

[1] See "Sorting Mail with Column Headers" at
    https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-sorting-message-list.html.en

P.S.: by the way, Reply to List (Ctrl+L) works fine for me on this mailing list


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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
Thanks for the detailed answer!

I did as you told.

* select message, click archive.
evolution tells me this:
> [imapx:A] I/O: ''
[imapx:A] I/O: 'DONE'
[imapx:A] I/O: ''
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00339 OK Idle completed (0.001 + 6.609 + 6.609 secs).'
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00340 UID MOVE 969 Archiv'
[imapx:A] I/O: '* OK [COPYUID 1451911991 969 21295] Moved UIDs.
* VANISHED 969
A00340 OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 251] Move completed (0.006 + 0.000 + 0.005 secs).'
[imapx:B] I/O: '* STATUS Archiv (MESSAGES 5026 UIDNEXT 21296 UNSEEN 0
HIGHESTMODSEQ 2633)
* STATUS INBOX.FoodAuthent (MESSAGES 191 UIDNEXT 970 UNSEEN 0 HIGHESTMODSEQ
251)'
[imapx:B] I/O: ''
[imapx:B] I/O: 'DONE'
[imapx:B] I/O: ''
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00341 NOOP'
[imapx:A] I/O: '* STATUS Archiv (MESSAGES 5026 UIDNEXT 21296 UNSEEN 0
HIGHESTMODSEQ 2633)'
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00341 OK NOOP completed (0.001 + 0.000 secs).'
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00342 NOOP'
[imapx:B] I/O: 'B00336 OK Idle completed (0.001 + 75.192 + 75.200 secs).'
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00342 OK NOOP completed (0.001 + 0.000 secs).'
[imapx:A] I/O: 'A00343 UID FETCH 968:* (UID FLAGS)'
[imapx:B] I/O: 'B00344 STATUS Archiv (MESSAGES UNSEEN UIDVALIDITY UIDNEXT
HIGHESTMODSEQ)'
[imapx:A] I/O: '* 191 FETCH (UID 967 FLAGS (\Seen))
* 192 EXISTS
* 192 FETCH (UID 970 RFC822.SIZE 4320 FLAGS (\Seen) RFC822.HEADER {1433}
{now the message is printed that I am trying to archive}

Re-selecting the folder makes the message to show up again.

Best,
Alex

On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 19:21 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote:

> On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 18:54 +0200, Alexander Kerner wrote:
> > * Version is 3.34.1-2.
>
> Hi,
> good, that's not that old version.
>
> > * The archive folder and the source folder (subfolder of Inbox) are
> > both on the same IMAP server.
>
> Fine. It means that the message is either copied & deleted or straight
> moved to the other folder, depending whether the server supports the
> MOVE extension.
>
> Is the message stored both in the archive folder and in the source
> folder after it re-appears, or it's not in the archive folder at all?
> Some servers (notably Gmail) have pretty aggressive "de-duplication",
> based on the Message-ID header, not allowing to store the same message
> (well, not really the same, just two messages with the same Message-ID)
> in two folders, though I doubt it has any impact here.
>
> You can see what is happening in the background when you run Evolution
> from a terminal like this:
>
>    $ CAMEL_DEBUG=imapx:io evolution
>
> It'll print raw communication between the server and the client for all
> your IMAP accounts. It's not suitable to be shared in public, due to it
> containing a lot of private information, but you can check whether the
> message had been copied to the archive folder by searching for the
> archive folder name in the log (or for UID COPY/UID MOVE, which should
> mention the archive folder name). You can also add "UID" column into
> the message list [1] and check whether the UID of the message changed
> or not. You can search the captured log for the UID to see what had
> been done with it (if I recall correctly, multiple folders can have the
> same UID, thus it can be tricky). The log itself can be confusing, I
> just mention it as a way to see what is done in the background, between
> the Evolution and the server.
> Bye,
> Milan
>
> [1] See "Sorting Mail with Column Headers" at
>    
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-sorting-message-list.html.en
>
> P.S.: by the way, Reply to List (Ctrl+L) works fine for me on this
> mailing list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> evolution-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 21:01 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
wrote:
> [imapx:A] I/O: 'A00340 UID MOVE 969 Archiv'
> [imapx:A] I/O: '* OK [COPYUID 1451911991 969 21295] Moved UIDs.
> * VANISHED 969
> A00340 OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 251] Move completed (0.006 + 0.000 + 0.005 secs).'

        Hi,
the above means that the IMAPx told the server to move message with UID
969 to the Archiv folder and the server confirmed the move, telling
that the added message in the Archiv folder has UID 21295 there.

> [imapx:A] I/O: '* 191 FETCH (UID 967 FLAGS (\Seen))
> * 192 EXISTS
> * 192 FETCH (UID 970 RFC822.SIZE 4320 FLAGS (\Seen) RFC822.HEADER {1433}
> {now the message is printed that I am trying to archive}

This is downloading message with UID 970, which means it's a new
message (the previous was 969). I do not see anything in the log
snippet what Evolution would do to move the message back (supposing you
did not remove that part), thus it's something else returning the
message back to the original folder. Could it be any (server side)
filters do that? Or maybe filters from another client, in case you
access the account from multiple clients.

If you cannot find anything, then I'd ask the server admins. They might
be able to explain this. I do not see any faulty thing from the log
snippet.
        Bye,
        Milan

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
Hi,
indeed there was another instance of Evolution running on another machine.
I changed that and now it seems to work.
I have no idea though why or how the other instance may sabotage my imap
operations.
Best,
Alex
 

On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 08:22 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote:

> On Wed, 2020-04-15 at 21:01 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
> wrote:
> > [imapx:A] I/O: 'A00340 UID MOVE 969 Archiv'
> > [imapx:A] I/O: '* OK [COPYUID 1451911991 969 21295] Moved UIDs.
> > * VANISHED 969
> > A00340 OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 251] Move completed (0.006 + 0.000 + 0.005
> > secs).'
>
> Hi,
> the above means that the IMAPx told the server to move message with UID
> 969 to the Archiv folder and the server confirmed the move, telling
> that the added message in the Archiv folder has UID 21295 there.
>
> > [imapx:A] I/O: '* 191 FETCH (UID 967 FLAGS (\Seen))
> > * 192 EXISTS
> > * 192 FETCH (UID 970 RFC822.SIZE 4320 FLAGS (\Seen) RFC822.HEADER
> > {1433}
> > {now the message is printed that I am trying to archive}
>
> This is downloading message with UID 970, which means it's a new
> message (the previous was 969). I do not see anything in the log
> snippet what Evolution would do to move the message back (supposing you
> did not remove that part), thus it's something else returning the
> message back to the original folder. Could it be any (server side)
> filters do that? Or maybe filters from another client, in case you
> access the account from multiple clients.
>
> If you cannot find anything, then I'd ask the server admins. They might
> be able to explain this. I do not see any faulty thing from the log
> snippet.
> Bye,
> Milan
>
> _______________________________________________
> evolution-list mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 13:09 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
wrote:
> indeed there was another instance of Evolution running on another machine.
> I changed that and now it seems to work.
> I have no idea though why or how the other instance may sabotage my imap
> operations.

[Please don't top-post]

IMAP is not designed to handle immediate synchronisation between two
clients active on the same account. They will eventually synchronise,
but not immediately.

poc

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Zan Lynx
On 4/16/2020 6:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> IMAP is not designed to handle immediate synchronisation between two
> clients active on the same account. They will eventually synchronise,
> but not immediately.

That does depend on your clients and IMAP server. My personal email
server running Cyrus IMAP updates instantly between Thunderbird and K9
Mail. That's because with an active connection and IDLE (where the
client passively waits for notification of changes) watched folders get
immediately updated.

I haven't tried this with Evolution lately, but I thought it did support
IDLE notification.
--
                 Knowledge is Power -- Power Corrupts
                         Study Hard -- Be Evil
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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 09:41 -0600, Zan Lynx wrote:

> On 4/16/2020 6:00 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > IMAP is not designed to handle immediate synchronisation between two
> > clients active on the same account. They will eventually synchronise,
> > but not immediately.
>
> That does depend on your clients and IMAP server. My personal email
> server running Cyrus IMAP updates instantly between Thunderbird and K9
> Mail. That's because with an active connection and IDLE (where the
> client passively waits for notification of changes) watched folders get
> immediately updated.
>
> I haven't tried this with Evolution lately, but I thought it did support
> IDLE notification.

It does, but it's an option. And not all IMAP servers are the same.

poc

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick O'Callaghan


On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 13:00 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 13:09 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
> wrote:
> > indeed there was another instance of Evolution running on another
> > machine.
> > I changed that and now it seems to work.
> > I have no idea though why or how the other instance may sabotage my
> > imap
> > operations.
>
> [Please don't top-post]
>
> IMAP is not designed to handle immediate synchronisation between two
> clients active on the same account. They will eventually synchronise,
> but not immediately.
>
> poc
>
>

How does this work with Gmail, i.e., a web-interface for IMAP mail? I use
Gmail and Evolution at the same time and it synchronizes instantly between
the web and Evolution.

Best,
Alex

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Re: Cannot Archive Messages Keep Showing Up

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Fri, 2020-04-17 at 13:43 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
wrote:

>
> On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 13:00 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-04-16 at 13:09 +0200, Alexander Kerner via evolution-list
> > wrote:
> > > indeed there was another instance of Evolution running on another
> > > machine.
> > > I changed that and now it seems to work.
> > > I have no idea though why or how the other instance may sabotage my
> > > imap
> > > operations.
> >
> > [Please don't top-post]
> >
> > IMAP is not designed to handle immediate synchronisation between two
> > clients active on the same account. They will eventually synchronise,
> > but not immediately.
> >
> > poc
> >
> >
>
> How does this work with Gmail, i.e., a web-interface for IMAP mail? I use
> Gmail and Evolution at the same time and it synchronizes instantly between
> the web and Evolution.

I also use both. Gmail is not a "web interface for IMAP email". It's an
entirely different email client that uses its own backend protocols.
The fact that the Gmail *service* is also available via IMAP doesn't
mean that the Gmail *web client* is IMAP-based.

Nor are they always in synch. I frequently see updated folder contents
on Evolution which are not updated on the web interface until an
appreciable time later, sometimes on the order of minutes. I also
sometimes delete a message on the web interface and it's still listed
in the folder contents on Evolution, though if I click on it it then
shows as "missing".

poc

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