Composing in html mode

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Composing in html mode

Van Snyder
I'm using Evolution 3.30.5-1.1 on Debian Buster 10.4.

When I'm composing in html mode, I have experienced a few problems.

If I paste some text from a web page, and it includes paragraphs with blank lines between, the blank lines between the paragraphs disappear.

If I pick up some white space within the message, followed by some text, and paste it, the white space disappears.

If the material I paste from a web page has some non-text stuff in it, sometimes a graphic, sometimes something mysterious, I get a gob of wnite space that I can't delete. Sometimes the white space is between regions of text. Sometimes it's atop text that I can see sticking out around the edges of the white space.

Sometimes after pasting some text, I can't paste any more. Neither by dropping with the middle mouse button, nor by using Ctrl-V. I can type text. Sometimes after typing text, I can paste more, but usually when it stops pasting, it's permanent.

I can paste the text from the clipboard somewhere else, for example into an editor.

I can save as draft and then finish it, but that's not an especially convenient work around.


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Re: Composing in html mode

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Wed, 2020-07-22 at 13:04 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> I'm using Evolution 3.30.5-1.1 on Debian Buster 10.4.
>
> When I'm composing in html mode, I have experienced a few problems.

        Hi,
I'm sorry to say this, but your 3.30.5 is too old. The current stable
version is 3.36.4 (which means more than a year and half of bug fixes
and development - the 3.30.5 had been released on 2019-02-04). There
surely had been done some composer changes meanwhile.

Nonetheless, the upcoming 3.38.0 will contain a fresh new composer
code, more depending on the WebKitGTK behavior. I cannot say how much
it'll help with your white space issues (the HTML as such doesn't work
with regular white space in the text the same as with white-space-
related elements), but I hope it'll help with at least some of your
issues with paste.

In any case, it doesn't make sense to file composer bugs for 3.30, or
even 3.36, there's nobody to look on it, due to limited man power. I'm
sorry.
        Bye,
        Milan

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Re: Composing in html mode

Van Snyder
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 10:13 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote:
When I'm composing in html mode, I have experienced a few problems.

        Hi,
I'm sorry to say this, but your 3.30.5 is too old. The current stable
version is 3.36.4 (which means more than a year and half of bug fixes
and development - the 3.30.5 had been released on 2019-02-04). There
surely had been done some composer changes meanwhile.

I don't expect anybody to repair 3.30.5, only to call attention to the problem and hope it's repaired in a newer version.

I'm current on all updates to Debian Buster 10.4.

I tried to install Evolution independently of the distribution, but it depended upon so many libraries that are newer than the ones in the distribution that I was afraid of version conflicts messing up my system.

Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.


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Re: Composing in html mode

Andre Klapper
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.

The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.

andre
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https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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Re: Composing in html mode

Van Snyder
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.

The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.

The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details about how to install using these?


andre
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[hidden email]

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Re: Composing in html mode

Andre Klapper
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 13:10 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.
>
> The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details about
> how to install using these?

https://flatpak.org/setup/

Cheers,
andre
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Re: Composing in html mode

Pete Biggs
In reply to this post by Van Snyder
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 13:10 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > > Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.
> >
> > The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.
>
> The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details about
> how to install using these?
>
Be careful about using things like flatpack - they work, but by their
nature they run in a "sandbox" isolated from the system.  It's fairly
new technology (at least for Evolution) and things are getting better,
but sometimes you come across things, especially in interactions with
the host system, that just don't quite work as you expect.

This is not meant to put you off, it is good to try these things. But
you should be aware that it isn't a total solution yet. There will no
doubt be many people who now jump in and say it works fine for them
("all you need to do is ....").

P.


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Re: Composing in html mode

Paulo Cesar G. Costa
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 22:35 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:

> On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 13:10 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > > > Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.
> > >
> > > The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.
> >
> > The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details about
> > how to install using these?
> >
> Be careful about using things like flatpack - they work, but by their
> nature they run in a "sandbox" isolated from the system.  It's fairly
> new technology (at least for Evolution) and things are getting better,
> but sometimes you come across things, especially in interactions with
> the host system, that just don't quite work as you expect.
>
> This is not meant to put you off, it is good to try these things. But
> you should be aware that it isn't a total solution yet. There will no
> doubt be many people who now jump in and say it works fine for them
> ("all you need to do is ....").
>
> P.

I second that. Sandboxing might be a good fit for a number of
applications but not for those that inherently require a higher level of
interaction with the file system. These usually take a usability hit
when operating in a sandbox. In my experience, in order to get
attachments in the place I want, import things, attach files, point to
dot files I have, etc., required me to write so many exceptions to the
sandboxing policy that I simply quit using it.
Maybe in the future...

Paulo

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Re: Composing in html mode

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 17:59 -0400, Paulo Cesar G. Costa wrote:
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 22:35 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 13:10 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.

The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.

The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details about
how to install using these?

Be careful about using things like flatpack - they work, but by their
nature they run in a "sandbox" isolated from the system.  It's fairly
new technology (at least for Evolution) and things are getting better,
but sometimes you come across things, especially in interactions with
the host system, that just don't quite work as you expect.

This is not meant to put you off, it is good to try these things. But
you should be aware that it isn't a total solution yet. There will no
doubt be many people who now jump in and say it works fine for them
("all you need to do is ....").

P.

I second that. Sandboxing might be a good fit for a number of
applications but not for those that inherently require a higher level of
interaction with the file system. These usually take a usability hit
when operating in a sandbox. In my experience, in order to get
attachments in the place I want, import things, attach files, point to
dot files I have, etc., required me to write so many exceptions to the
sandboxing policy that I simply quit using it.
Maybe in the future...

By and large, my two biggest complaints about the FlatPak version are
1) Zombie process created on death of environment that prevents restarting
without a reboot.  Hit an error in Evolution, Evolution dies leaving a 
evolution.bin process which is unkillable.

2) death of the evolution data server (I think), which handles attachments.
Symptoms, making the attachment hangs or if the attachment happens the process
of sending the email out hangs.

The interesting thing is that from build to build ( I rebuild my flatpak environment
every time my system takes a kernel update - Linux Mint 19.3 - 5.4.0-42-generic ), 
is that it changes every time. Some times its both problems other times, its 
one or the other.

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Re: Composing in html mode

Patrick O'Callaghan
In reply to this post by Paulo Cesar G. Costa
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 17:59 -0400, Paulo Cesar G. Costa wrote:

> On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 22:35 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 13:10 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > > > > Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.
> > > >
> > > > The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.
> > >
> > > The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details about
> > > how to install using these?
> > >
> > Be careful about using things like flatpack - they work, but by their
> > nature they run in a "sandbox" isolated from the system.  It's fairly
> > new technology (at least for Evolution) and things are getting better,
> > but sometimes you come across things, especially in interactions with
> > the host system, that just don't quite work as you expect.
> >
> > This is not meant to put you off, it is good to try these things. But
> > you should be aware that it isn't a total solution yet. There will no
> > doubt be many people who now jump in and say it works fine for them
> > ("all you need to do is ....").
> >
> > P.
>
> I second that. Sandboxing might be a good fit for a number of
> applications but not for those that inherently require a higher level of
> interaction with the file system. These usually take a usability hit
> when operating in a sandbox. In my experience, in order to get
> attachments in the place I want, import things, attach files, point to
> dot files I have, etc., required me to write so many exceptions to the
> sandboxing policy that I simply quit using it.
> Maybe in the future...

I think the problem is not so much access to the filesystem, which
generally is just the host's own filesystem, but access to the rest of
the Desktop Environment. Evolution in particular is integrated with the
Gnome system and expects to be able to communicate with other GTK-based
components which will often not be accessible from within the sandbox.

poc

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Re: Composing in html mode

Paulo Cesar G. Costa
On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 01:00 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 17:59 -0400, Paulo Cesar G. Costa wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 22:35 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 13:10 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 21:59 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 12:29 -0700, Van Snyder wrote:
> > > > > > Too bad there isn't a statically-linked version.
> > > > >
> > > > > The future is rather stuff like Flatpak / Snap / etc.
> > > >
> > > > The buzz words are kind of a mystery. Are there more details
> > > > about
> > > > how to install using these?
> > > >
> > > Be careful about using things like flatpack - they work, but by
> > > their
> > > nature they run in a "sandbox" isolated from the system.  It's
> > > fairly
> > > new technology (at least for Evolution) and things are getting
> > > better,
> > > but sometimes you come across things, especially in interactions
> > > with
> > > the host system, that just don't quite work as you expect.
> > >
> > > This is not meant to put you off, it is good to try these things.
> > > But
> > > you should be aware that it isn't a total solution yet. There will
> > > no
> > > doubt be many people who now jump in and say it works fine for
> > > them
> > > ("all you need to do is ....").
> > >
> > > P.
> >
> > I second that. Sandboxing might be a good fit for a number of
> > applications but not for those that inherently require a higher
> > level of
> > interaction with the file system. These usually take a usability hit
> > when operating in a sandbox. In my experience, in order to get
> > attachments in the place I want, import things, attach files, point
> > to
> > dot files I have, etc., required me to write so many exceptions to
> > the
> > sandboxing policy that I simply quit using it.
> > Maybe in the future...
>
> I think the problem is not so much access to the filesystem, which
> generally is just the host's own filesystem, but access to the rest of
> the Desktop Environment. Evolution in particular is integrated with
> the
> Gnome system and expects to be able to communicate with other GTK-
> based
> components which will often not be accessible from within the sandbox.
>
> poc
>

Thanks, Patrick, you conveyed what I was trying to say in a much more
precise way. I kept tweaking the sandbox permissions in an attempt to
regain that integration, up to a point that it became a nuisance to me.

Paulo

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Re: Composing in html mode

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Thu, 2020-07-23 at 17:45 -0500, Japhering, Anonymous via evolution-
list wrote:
> 1) Zombie process created on death of environment that prevents
> restarting without a reboot.  Hit an error in Evolution, Evolution
> dies leaving a evolution.bin process which is unkillable.

        Hi,
weird, it's the main binary name (in Flatpak). I'd guess it should be
able to kill with `kill -9 123`, but if Flatpak/bubblewrap/whatever
prevents it, then try:
  $ flatpak run org.gnome.Evolution --force-shutdown
Maybe it'll do it.

> 2) death of the evolution data server (I think), which handles
> attachments.

The evolution-data-server is for contacts, calendars, tasks and memos,
it doesn't work with attachments in the mail or other parts. The work
with the attachments is handled by XDG portals (like xdg-desktop-
portal-gtk). Just saying, to clarify the things.

> Symptoms, making the attachment hangs or if the attachment happens
> the process of sending the email out hangs.

I recall a bug about that. I think it had something to do with the
attachment size as well (things made worse when the attachment was
larger). I do not recall the resolution for that bug, if there was any.
        Bye,
        Milan

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Re: Composing in html mode

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick O'Callaghan
On Fri, 2020-07-24 at 01:00 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> Evolution in particular is integrated with the Gnome system and
> expects to be able to communicate with other GTK-based components
> which will often not be accessible from within the sandbox.

        Hi,
you are right, though the main concern of the users (as I see it) is
the other direction of the data sharing - the other desktop
applications do not have access to the data user configures in the
Flatpak version of the Evolution. It's due to the way the Flatpak
Evolution is created. It's made as a pure sandbox, with bundled
evolution-data-server, not exposing the data outside of the sandbox,
thus things like GNOME Calendar, GNOME To Do, GNOME Contacts, ... or
even GNOME Shell itself do not know about the
events/tasks/contacts/memos/mails the user sees in the Flatpak
Evolution. This pure sandboxing is needed to have the latest fixes on
both sides, in the Evolution itself and in the backends (evolution-
data-server). The Evolution is just one of the clients of the
evolution-data-server.

That's a rough view, I can go into more details, but I do not think
it's needed.
        Bye,
        Milan

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