Problem with character encoding?

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Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen
I have included an attachment, showing how one mail looks in Evolution and will send another email with an attachments showing Thunderbird. In
Thunderbird it displays as it should but not in Evolution.

Is this a bug or is it some settings configured wrong or?


Regards,

BTJ
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen
On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 12:12 +0100, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:

> I have included an attachment, showing how one mail looks in Evolution and will send another email with an attachments showing Thunderbird. In
> Thunderbird it displays as it should but not in Evolution.
>
> Is this a bug or is it some settings configured wrong or?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> BTJ
>
Here it the Thunderbird attachment..

BTJ
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 12:14 +0100, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 12:12 +0100, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
> > I have included an attachment, showing how one mail looks in Evolution and will send another email with an attachments showing Thunderbird. In
> > Thunderbird it displays as it should but not in Evolution.
> >
> > Is this a bug or is it some settings configured wrong or?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > BTJ
> >
>
> Here it the Thunderbird attachment..

Have you tried View->Character Encoding?

poc
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen
On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 11:28 +0000, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 12:14 +0100, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 12:12 +0100, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
> > > I have included an attachment, showing how one mail looks in Evolution and will send another email with an attachments showing Thunderbird. In
> > > Thunderbird it displays as it should but not in Evolution.
> > >
> > > Is this a bug or is it some settings configured wrong or?
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > BTJ
> > >
> >
> > Here it the Thunderbird attachment..
>
> Have you tried View->Character Encoding?
>
> poc
>

Yes, if I choose ISO-8859-1 instead of default, which is UTF-8, then everything looks ok except for the subject..
So it's better but not 100%. Also, shouldn't Evolution figure this out by itself or? (at least since Thunderbird does..)

BTJ
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Pete Biggs

> Yes, if I choose ISO-8859-1 instead of default, which is UTF-8, then
> everything looks ok except for the subject..

Could you show us the source of the message - removing any personal
information of course. We would need to see the mime structure of the
message and any headers relating to character encoding.

> So it's better but not 100%. Also, shouldn't Evolution figure this
> out by itself or? (at least since Thunderbird does..)

Well Thunderbird is Thunderbird and Evolution isn't!  It could be down
to assumptions that TB makes that Evo doesn't or some error in the mime
structure that TB accepts but Evo doesn't.

P.
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen
On Fri, 2017-02-17 at 12:17 +0000, Pete Biggs wrote:

> > Yes, if I choose ISO-8859-1 instead of default, which is UTF-8, then
> > everything looks ok except for the subject..
>
> Could you show us the source of the message - removing any personal
> information of course. We would need to see the mime structure of the
> message and any headers relating to character encoding.
>
> > So it's better but not 100%. Also, shouldn't Evolution figure this
> > out by itself or? (at least since Thunderbird does..)
>
> Well Thunderbird is Thunderbird and Evolution isn't!  It could be down
> to assumptions that TB makes that Evo doesn't or some error in the mime
> structure that TB accepts but Evo doesn't.
>
> P.

Yes, I know.. I just thought it was strange, since I do not really like TB and was suprised it worked there and not in Evolution.. (A)
But here is the source:


Received: from exchange2.Norsvin.local (x.x.x.x) by
 exchange2.Norsvin.local (x.x.x.x) with Microsoft SMTP Server
 (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id
 15.1.544.27 via Mailbox Transport; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:19:51 +0100
Received: from exchange2.Norsvin.local (x.x.x.x) by
 exchange2.Norsvin.local (x.x.x.x) with Microsoft SMTP Server
 (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id
 15.1.544.27; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:19:49 +0100
Received: from tokyo.mep.pandasecurity.com (92.54.22.71) by
 exchange2.Norsvin.local (x.x.x.x) with Microsoft SMTP Server
 (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA256) id 15.1.544.27 via
 Frontend Transport; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:19:49 +0100
Received: from [185.38.180.43] (helo=smtp-out10.electric.net) by
 tokyo.mep.pandasecurity.com with esmtps
 (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from
 <[hidden email]>) id 1ceK6J-0005tt-3f for [hidden email]; Thu, 16 Feb 2017
 12:19:52 +0100
Received: from 1ceK6H-0002oo-Ty by out10d.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim
 4.87) (envelope-from <[hidden email]>) id 1ceK6H-0002q9-VR for
 [hidden email]; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:19:49 -0800
Received: by emcmailer; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:19:49 -0800
Received: from [185.83.193.161] (helo=webmail.domain.no)
        by out10d.electric.net with esmtp (Exim 4.87)
        (envelope-from <[hidden email]>)
        id 1ceK6H-0002oo-Ty
        for [hidden email]; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 03:19:49 -0800
X-Envelope-From: [hidden email]
To: <[hidden email]>
From: "Lnningskontoret" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Lnnsslipp.
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:19:49 +0100
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
        boundary="NextPart_000_0025_01BDBAA5.86C80EB0"
X-Outbound-IP: 185.83.193.161
X-Env-From: [hidden email]
X-Proto: esmtp
X-Revdns: mail.domain.no
X-HELO: webmail.domain.no
X-TLS: 
X-Authenticated_ID: 
X-PolicySMART: 5550362
X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c)
X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s)
X-CTCH-IPCLASS: R3
X-CTCH-RefID:
 str=0001.0A0B0204.58A58AD7.0338:SCFSTAT34968891,ss=1,re=-4.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,vtr=str,vl=0,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0
X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown
X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown
X-Spamina-Bogosity: Ham
X-Spamina-History: valid
X-Spamina-Service-Type: pyme
Return-Path: SRS0=r++k=Z5=domain.no=[hidden email]
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-Network-Message-Id:
 e348b933-cfaa-479a-3d46-08d4565db85f
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AVStamp-Enterprise: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthSource: exchange2.Norsvin.local
X-MS-Exchange-Organization-AuthAs: Anonymous
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-EndToEndLatency: 00:00:02.1250383
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Evolution-Source: [hidden email]


--NextPart_000_0025_01BDBAA5.86C80EB0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Vedlagte l=F8nnsslipp =E5pnes med ditt 11 sifrede personnummer.=20
Hilsen l=F8nningskontoret

--NextPart_000_0025_01BDBAA5.86C80EB0
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="100_168_20170201.PDF"
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="100_168_20170201.PDF"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

..... content removed......

--NextPart_000_0025_01BDBAA5.86C80EB0--


BTJ
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Pete Biggs

>
> Yes, I know.. I just thought it was strange, since I do not really
> like TB and was suprised it worked there and not in Evolution.. (A)
> But here is the source:

OK. Thanks.  Some comments on it:

>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> From: "Lnningskontoret" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Lnnsslipp.

There doesn't appear to be any character encoding directives on the
Subject header, or indeed any strange characters at all, so it will
always be displayed as plain ASCII (I think).

>
>
>
> --NextPart_000_0025_01BDBAA5.86C80EB0
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Again, there's no character set information, so the non-ascii
characters will be displayed in whatever is the default in Evolution.

>
> Vedlagte l=F8nnsslipp =E5pnes med ditt 11 sifrede personnummer.=20
> Hilsen l=F8nningskontoret
>

So yes, F8 is O-cross in ISO-8859-1 and an invalid sequence in UTF-8,
so perhaps TB is making assumptions about the character encoding used.

The other thing I noticed is that you are using an Exchange server. How
are you connecting to it? Is TB using the same method?

P.
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Zan Lynx
In reply to this post by Pete Biggs
On 2/17/2017 5:17 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:

>> Yes, if I choose ISO-8859-1 instead of default, which is UTF-8, then
>> everything looks ok except for the subject..
> Could you show us the source of the message - removing any personal
> information of course. We would need to see the mime structure of the
> message and any headers relating to character encoding.
>
>> So it's better but not 100%. Also, shouldn't Evolution figure this
>> out by itself or? (at least since Thunderbird does..)
> Well Thunderbird is Thunderbird and Evolution isn't!  It could be down
> to assumptions that TB makes that Evo doesn't or some error in the mime
> structure that TB accepts but Evo doesn't.
>
Thunderbird has a "Fallback Encoding" which is set per folder. You can
right-click on a folder and change it in Properties.

If the message specifies an encoding, that takes over unless you change
it in View. You can also go into Options, Display, Formatting, Advanced,
and change the defaults there. Unicode UTF-8 has been the default sender
encoding in Thunderbird for a while.

So the differences are just because Evolution is defaulting to UTF-8 and
Thunderbird to ISO-8859-1 for messages that don't specify their encoding.

A quick Google shows this for changing it in Evolution:
https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-displaying-character-encodings.html.en

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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Trond Husø
On fr., 2017-02-17 at 06:54 -0700, Zan Lynx wrote:

> On 2/17/2017 5:17 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yes, if I choose ISO-8859-1 instead of default, which is UTF-8,
> > > then
> > > everything looks ok except for the subject..
> > Could you show us the source of the message - removing any personal
> > information of course. We would need to see the mime structure of
> > the
> > message and any headers relating to character encoding.
> >
> > >
> > > So it's better but not 100%. Also, shouldn't Evolution figure
> > > this
> > > out by itself or? (at least since Thunderbird does..)
> > Well Thunderbird is Thunderbird and Evolution isn't!  It could be
> > down
> > to assumptions that TB makes that Evo doesn't or some error in the
> > mime
> > structure that TB accepts but Evo doesn't.
> >
> Thunderbird has a "Fallback Encoding" which is set per folder. You
> can 
> right-click on a folder and change it in Properties.
>
> If the message specifies an encoding, that takes over unless you
> change 
> it in View. You can also go into Options, Display, Formatting,
> Advanced, 
> and change the defaults there. Unicode UTF-8 has been the default
> sender 
> encoding in Thunderbird for a while.
>
> So the differences are just because Evolution is defaulting to UTF-8
> and 
> Thunderbird to ISO-8859-1 for messages that don't specify their
> encoding.
>
> A quick Google shows this for changing it in Evolution:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-displaying-charact
> er-encodings.html.en
>

Since I am from the same country as the thread starter, I to would like
Evolution to just find out which encoding is used. In Norway, if you
want to specify the ISO-8859-standard, the number is ISO-8859-15, but
most will just put ISO-8859-1.

I think the thread starter has found something (bug?) that should be
corrected in future releases. I have not experienced this before, but I
would like to have it fixed.

Is the next step here for the thread starter to report this as a bug or
something in the project bug tracking system?

Trond
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Pete Biggs
In reply to this post by Zan Lynx

> Thunderbird has a "Fallback Encoding" which is set per folder. You can
> right-click on a folder and change it in Properties.
>
> If the message specifies an encoding, that takes over unless you change
> it in View. You can also go into Options, Display, Formatting, Advanced,
> and change the defaults there. Unicode UTF-8 has been the default sender
> encoding in Thunderbird for a while.
>
> So the differences are just because Evolution is defaulting to UTF-8 and
> Thunderbird to ISO-8859-1 for messages that don't specify their encoding.
>
> A quick Google shows this for changing it in Evolution:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-displaying-character-encodings.html.en
>

That would be the same as 

Help -> Contents -> Mail Management -> Display of a Message ->
Character Encodings

within Evolution.

P.
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Pete Biggs
In reply to this post by Trond Husø

> >
>
> Since I am from the same country as the thread starter, I to would like
> Evolution to just find out which encoding is used. In Norway, if you
> want to specify the ISO-8859-standard, the number is ISO-8859-15, but
> most will just put ISO-8859-1.

What do you mean? Do you want it to deduce what country that particular
copy of Evo is running in and then select the encoding to display
emails based on that?

>
> I think the thread starter has found something (bug?) that should be
> corrected in future releases. I have not experienced this before, but I
> would like to have it fixed.

Why do you think it's a bug? The OP had UTF-8 set as the default; there
was no encoding specified in the message; Evolution used the encoding
specified as the default to use when there was no specific encoding in
the message.  All seems perfectly logical and non-bug like to me.

The error in this is that the received email did not have an encoding
set, which not even the harshest critic would say was an Evo bug!

P.
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Zan Lynx
In reply to this post by Trond Husø
On 2/17/2017 7:48 AM, Trond Husø wrote:
> Since I am from the same country as the thread starter, I to would like
> Evolution to just find out which encoding is used. In Norway, if you
> want to specify the ISO-8859-standard, the number is ISO-8859-15, but
> most will just put ISO-8859-1.
>
> I think the thread starter has found something (bug?) that should be
> corrected in future releases. I have not experienced this before, but I
> would like to have it fixed.

I remember discussion of this many times in other projects in the past.
Doing correct guessing of character encoding is impossible. The correct
fix is for the client to specify the encoding because no other method works.

The very best guessing methods are extremely complicated and use the
domain name, Geo IP lookup and spell checking in multiple languages. And
those systems can still be confused by a Japanese businessman writing a
mostly English email and sending it from California.

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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen
In reply to this post by Pete Biggs
On 17.02.2017 13:55, Pete Biggs wrote:
>>
>
> The other thing I noticed is that you are using an Exchange server. How
> are you connecting to it? Is TB using the same method?
>

No, I am using EWS for Evolution and ExQuilla for Thunderbird.
But thx for checking it out..

BTJ
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen
In reply to this post by Zan Lynx
On 17.02.2017 14:54, Zan Lynx wrote:

> On 2/17/2017 5:17 AM, Pete Biggs wrote:
>>> Yes, if I choose ISO-8859-1 instead of default, which is UTF-8, then
>>> everything looks ok except for the subject..
>> Could you show us the source of the message - removing any personal
>> information of course. We would need to see the mime structure of the
>> message and any headers relating to character encoding.
>>
>>> So it's better but not 100%. Also, shouldn't Evolution figure this
>>> out by itself or? (at least since Thunderbird does..)
>> Well Thunderbird is Thunderbird and Evolution isn't!  It could be down
>> to assumptions that TB makes that Evo doesn't or some error in the
>> mime
>> structure that TB accepts but Evo doesn't.
>>
> Thunderbird has a "Fallback Encoding" which is set per folder. You can
> right-click on a folder and change it in Properties.
>
> If the message specifies an encoding, that takes over unless you
> change it in View. You can also go into Options, Display, Formatting,
> Advanced, and change the defaults there. Unicode UTF-8 has been the
> default sender encoding in Thunderbird for a while.
>
> So the differences are just because Evolution is defaulting to UTF-8
> and Thunderbird to ISO-8859-1 for messages that don't specify their
> encoding.
>
> A quick Google shows this for changing it in Evolution:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-displaying-character-encodings.html.en

Thx for the explanation, did not know that.

BTJ
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Pete Biggs
In reply to this post by Bjørn T Johansen

> > The other thing I noticed is that you are using an Exchange server. How
> > are you connecting to it? Is TB using the same method?
> >
>
> No, I am using EWS for Evolution and ExQuilla for Thunderbird.

But ExQuilla is an EWS plugin for Thunderbird, so they are both using
the same mechanism for retrieving the mails. (It's not beyond belief
that Exchange could present subtly different message content between
EWS and IMAP!)

P.
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Re: Problem with character encoding?

Bjørn T Johansen


On 17.02.2017 23:21, Pete Biggs wrote:

>> > The other thing I noticed is that you are using an Exchange server. How
>> > are you connecting to it? Is TB using the same method?
>> >
>>
>> No, I am using EWS for Evolution and ExQuilla for Thunderbird.
>
> But ExQuilla is an EWS plugin for Thunderbird, so they are both using
> the same mechanism for retrieving the mails. (It's not beyond belief
> that Exchange could present subtly different message content between
> EWS and IMAP!)
>
> P.

Yes, you are of course right, they are both using EWS...

BTJ
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