duplicate reminders, snooze times

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duplicate reminders, snooze times

Daniel Pocock


Hi all,

I tried setting up two different CalDAV clients against the same task
list on a CalDAV server.

The clients are Evolution and Mozilla Lightning plugin and the server is
DAViCal

I notice that each client appears to handle reminders independently, e.g.

- both clients display the same reminders

- if I click to snooze for 1 hour in Evolution and then click snooze for
5 hours in Lightning, then Evolution will show the reminder again 1 hour
later and Lightning shows it 5 hours later

Is the snooze time kept on the client or the CalDAV server?  Is there
any way to coordinate the snooze times between the clients, e.g. if I
have one client on a desktop and another on a laptop and I click snooze
on the desktop, should the laptop know that?

Regards,

Daniel
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 15:22 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> The clients are Evolution and Mozilla Lightning plugin and the server
> is DAViCal

As always, to get sensible answers you have to say which version of
Evolution you have (Help->About). Why is this so hard to remember?

poc
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Daniel Pocock


On 06/07/15 17:19, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 15:22 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> The clients are Evolution and Mozilla Lightning plugin and the server
>> is DAViCal
>
> As always, to get sensible answers you have to say which version of
> Evolution you have (Help->About). Why is this so hard to remember?

It is a stable Debian 8 (jessie) system

$ dpkg -s evolution | grep ^Version
Version: 3.12.9~git20141130.241663-1+b1


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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 17:30 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:

>
> On 06/07/15 17:19, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 15:22 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > > The clients are Evolution and Mozilla Lightning plugin and the
> > > server
> > > is DAViCal
> >
> > As always, to get sensible answers you have to say which version of
> > Evolution you have (Help->About). Why is this so hard to remember?
>
> It is a stable Debian 8 (jessie) system

That means nothing to most list members.

> $ dpkg -s evolution | grep ^Version
> Version: 3.12.9~git20141130.241663-1+b1

Easier just to check Help->About and get the actual version number
without all the extra stuff.

poc
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Milan Crha
In reply to this post by Daniel Pocock
On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 15:22 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> Is the snooze time kept on the client or the CalDAV server?

        Hi,
Evolution stores the snooze/already-reminded settings locally only.
There is also no standard facility to store such "flags" on the server,
at least not on most of them (I think an Exchange server has a property
for it). The CalDAV doesn't have any such standard setting, as far as I
know, thus the interoperability between two independent applications is
equal to none in this case. As it's all locally stored in the Evolution
then even two Evolution instances on two different machines will
repeat/not-know-about-snooze being done in the other instance, despite
being connected to the same server and calendar.
        Bye,
        Milan
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Andrea Vai
Il giorno mar, 07/07/2015 alle 07.17 +0200, Milan Crha ha scritto:

> On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 15:22 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > Is the snooze time kept on the client or the CalDAV server?
>
> Hi,
> Evolution stores the snooze/already-reminded settings locally only.
> There is also no standard facility to store such "flags" on the server,
> at least not on most of them (I think an Exchange server has a property
> for it). The CalDAV doesn't have any such standard setting, as far as I
> know, thus the interoperability between two independent applications is
> equal to none in this case. As it's all locally stored in the Evolution
> then even two Evolution instances on two different machines will
> repeat/not-know-about-snooze being done in the other instance, despite
> being connected to the same server and calendar.

Hi,
I would like a couple of details, please, because I am wondering about
this behaviour since I switched to evolution from MS Outlook many years
ago.

Now I use to sync my appointments between evo and my Samsung smart-phone
using my google account... does all you say about CalDAV apply to my
case too? i.e., is a "google account calendar" equivalent to CalDAV?
Sorry, I am a bit confused here.

When I used to use outlook and another smartphone (with windows mobile)
it happened that each device was aware of the snooze/dismiss being
selected on the other one. This was great, because now it is quite
annoying give twice (or more) the same command (snooze/dismiss etc) to
different devices. I know that it was a totally different syncing
technology there, but it would be really wonderful if evo will be able
to do the same.

Sorry for my English and for asking noob questions,

I am using Evolution 3.12.11

Many thanks,
Andrea

> Bye,
> Milan
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Daniel Pocock


On 07/07/15 08:41, Andrea Vai wrote:

> Il giorno mar, 07/07/2015 alle 07.17 +0200, Milan Crha ha scritto:
>> On Mon, 2015-07-06 at 15:22 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>>> Is the snooze time kept on the client or the CalDAV server?
>>
>> Hi,
>> Evolution stores the snooze/already-reminded settings locally only.
>> There is also no standard facility to store such "flags" on the server,
>> at least not on most of them (I think an Exchange server has a property
>> for it). The CalDAV doesn't have any such standard setting, as far as I
>> know, thus the interoperability between two independent applications is
>> equal to none in this case. As it's all locally stored in the Evolution
>> then even two Evolution instances on two different machines will
>> repeat/not-know-about-snooze being done in the other instance, despite
>> being connected to the same server and calendar.
>
> Hi,
> I would like a couple of details, please, because I am wondering about
> this behaviour since I switched to evolution from MS Outlook many years
> ago.
>
> Now I use to sync my appointments between evo and my Samsung smart-phone
> using my google account... does all you say about CalDAV apply to my
> case too? i.e., is a "google account calendar" equivalent to CalDAV?
> Sorry, I am a bit confused here.
>
> When I used to use outlook and another smartphone (with windows mobile)
> it happened that each device was aware of the snooze/dismiss being
> selected on the other one. This was great, because now it is quite
> annoying give twice (or more) the same command (snooze/dismiss etc) to
> different devices. I know that it was a totally different syncing
> technology there, but it would be really wonderful if evo will be able
> to do the same.
>
> Sorry for my English and for asking noob questions,
>
> I am using Evolution 3.12.11
>


Milan, thanks for the response

If the CalDAV and iCalendar standards don't specify a way to do this,
then would the Evolution developers consider submitting an IETF draft
proposing a solution?

If Outlook is doing this better and it is something that causes daily
annoyance to GNOME users then it really sounds worthwhile to resolve.

Regards,

Daniel
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Milan Crha
In reply to this post by Andrea Vai
On Tue, 2015-07-07 at 08:41 +0200, Andrea Vai wrote:
> Now I use to sync my appointments between evo and my Samsung smart
> -phone using my google account... does all you say about CalDAV apply
> to my case too? i.e., is a "google account calendar" equivalent to
> CalDAV?

        Hi,
in case of Evolution: yes, Google calendar is connected through CalDAV,
thus anything about CalDAV applies to Google calendars in the
evolution.
        Bye,
        Milan
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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Milan Crha
In reply to this post by Daniel Pocock
On Tue, 2015-07-07 at 08:50 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> If the CalDAV and iCalendar standards don't specify a way to do this,

        Hi,
to be honest, I'm just not aware of anything for it. I do not have the
RFCs that well studied (and remembered), thus it's possible there is a
way to store such things on a CalDAV calendar, in an iCalendar
structure.

> then would the Evolution developers consider submitting an IETF draft
> proposing a solution?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is one already. I wouldn't do it
myself right now, it requires some time to get with something sane.
        Bye,
        Milan

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Re: duplicate reminders, snooze times

Daniel Pocock


On 07/07/15 17:46, Milan Crha wrote:

> On Tue, 2015-07-07 at 08:50 +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> If the CalDAV and iCalendar standards don't specify a way to do this,
>
> Hi,
> to be honest, I'm just not aware of anything for it. I do not have the
> RFCs that well studied (and remembered), thus it's possible there is a
> way to store such things on a CalDAV calendar, in an iCalendar
> structure.
>
>> then would the Evolution developers consider submitting an IETF draft
>> proposing a solution?
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if there is one already. I wouldn't do it
> myself right now, it requires some time to get with something sane.


Looking at this more closely, it appears that Mozilla Lightning stores
the alarm snooze and dismiss status in the CalDAV server using custom
fields X-MOZ-LASTACK and X-MOZ-SNOOZE-TIME

Mozilla is also looking at storing local state for alarms from read-only
calendars:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=861594

Some other vendors, including Google Calendar, appear to support the
X-MOZ-* extensions:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=451821

A search engine finds other examples.

There appears to be work in progress on an RFC, it is currently known as
draft-daboo-valarm-extensions

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daboo-valarm-extensions-04

It could be interesting for the GNOME Evolution community to give
feedback on the draft.

I created enhancement requests in Bugzilla for each of these possible
solutions:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777274
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=777275

Regards,

Daniel
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