new user - spam issue

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new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
Hi, 
I just installed Evolution for the first time.
Version: 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.2 on Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
So far have put two gmail addresses as accounts and it looks ok.
The issue I have is that one of the two suddenly reports 175 old mails as being spam.
This happens inside the gmail-account, but right after the Evolution-install, hence the thought the issue is related.

When I mark those messages as safe, not long after the same will happen again and again - those mails end up being marked as spam.

What to do?
Greetings,
Ludo





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Re: new user - spam issue

Andre Klapper
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 10:14 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
wrote:
> I just installed Evolution for the first time.
> Version: 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.2 on Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
> So far have put two gmail addresses as accounts and it looks ok.
> The issue I have is that one of the two suddenly reports 175 old
> mails as being spam.

In which specific folder with which exact name?

> This happens inside the gmail-account, but right after the Evolution-
> install, hence the thought the issue is related.

Unlikely.

> When I mark those messages as safe,

How to mark some "message as safe" and where exactly?

> not long after the same will happen again and again - those mails end
> up being marked as spam.

Do you access the GMail accounts via IMAP or via POP?

If via IMAP, is this about GMail's "Spam" folder (server-side) or is
this about Evolution's "Junk" folder (locally)? "Spam" and "Junk" are
English strings obviously; don't know about the language of your UI.

Cheers,
andre
--
Andre Klapper  |  [hidden email]
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In which specific folder with which exact name?

In the original Gmail default Spam-folder.
In Evolution it shows up as:
...@gmail.com 
[Gmail] 
Spam 

I mark them as safe inside the gmail-account, by selecting them and clicking Not Spam.

I simply followed Evolutions' wizard for setting up, so I guess it's IMAP?  

Yes, it's about Gmails' Spam-folder.
My location is Belgium but I use English practically everywhere on my computer.
greetings and thanks for the reply :-)
Ludo






On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 10:28, Andre Klapper <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 10:14 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
wrote:
> I just installed Evolution for the first time.
> Version: 3.28.5-0ubuntu0.18.04.2 on Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon
> So far have put two gmail addresses as accounts and it looks ok.
> The issue I have is that one of the two suddenly reports 175 old
> mails as being spam.

In which specific folder with which exact name?

> This happens inside the gmail-account, but right after the Evolution-
> install, hence the thought the issue is related.

Unlikely.

> When I mark those messages as safe,

How to mark some "message as safe" and where exactly?

> not long after the same will happen again and again - those mails end
> up being marked as spam.

Do you access the GMail accounts via IMAP or via POP?

If via IMAP, is this about GMail's "Spam" folder (server-side) or is
this about Evolution's "Junk" folder (locally)? "Spam" and "Junk" are
English strings obviously; don't know about the language of your UI.

Cheers,
andre
--
Andre Klapper  |  [hidden email]
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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Re: new user - spam issue

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 11:34 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
wrote:
> I simply followed Evolutions' wizard for setting up, so I guess it's IMAP?

You can check by looking at the account info in Evo:

Edit->Preferences-><account name>->Edit->Receiving Email

You also have to configure Gmail for IMAP access (in the Gmail web UI).

poc

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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
Checked - it is imap.

Gmail IMAP access has status Enabled.

Thanks Patrick,
greetings,
Ludo 






On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 13:08, Patrick O'Callaghan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 11:34 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
wrote:
> I simply followed Evolutions' wizard for setting up, so I guess it's IMAP?

You can check by looking at the account info in Evo:

Edit->Preferences-><account name>->Edit->Receiving Email

You also have to configure Gmail for IMAP access (in the Gmail web UI).

poc

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Re: new user - spam issue

Pete Biggs
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 14:35 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
wrote:
> Checked - it is imap.
>
> Gmail IMAP access has status Enabled.
>

My *personal* opinion is that Gmail does it's own spam filtering -
unless it isn't doing what you want it to do, then there is no point in
enabling local spam checking.

Marking messages as "not spam" does not interact with the gmail spam
filters, only local ones. So it really depends on what is putting your
mail in there.

P.


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Re: new user - spam issue

Patrick O'Callaghan
In reply to this post by Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 14:35 +0200, Ludo Beckers wrote:
> Checked - it is imap.
>
> Gmail IMAP access has status Enabled.

[Please don't top-post on this list]

You might also want to check which folders are being subscribed in
Evolution (Folder->Subscriptions). Gmail uses labels, but for IMAP it
pretends that they are folders. This works for most things, but when a
message has more than one label Evo thinks there are multiple copies,
one in each folder, so when you delete one of them it will not delete
the others. I'm not sure how this would affect your spam issue (I
haven't had any problems with it but then I can't remember the last
time I marked something as 'not spam'). You might consider not
subscribing to the Spam folder and see if that makes a difference.

poc

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Re: new user - spam issue

Patrick O'Callaghan
In reply to this post by Pete Biggs
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 13:43 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:

> On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 14:35 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
> wrote:
> > Checked - it is imap.
> >
> > Gmail IMAP access has status Enabled.
> >
>
> My *personal* opinion is that Gmail does it's own spam filtering -
> unless it isn't doing what you want it to do, then there is no point in
> enabling local spam checking.
>
> Marking messages as "not spam" does not interact with the gmail spam
> filters, only local ones. So it really depends on what is putting your
> mail in there.

I agree. I must have mis-read the OPs description of the problem. I
assumed that "marking as non-spam" was being done on Gmail, not in Evo.
I certainly don't deal with spam in Evo in any way as I don't see the
point. The Gmail spam filter is better than a local one anyway.

poc

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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick O'Callaghan
Sorry, I'll try to remember not to top-post on this list.
I guess deleting all previous text, like I did now, is ok then?

About the labels: 
yes, I use a lot of labels and have many posts with 2 to 4 labels.

About Pete's post and your comment on it:
it is indeed inside Gmail that the problem occurs, not in Evolution. 

I simply - perhaps naively - assumed it might have to do with the Evo. install, since it happened at that same time.
So, now I presume you will suggest that I investigate via the Gmail-forum instead of here?
Thanks again for the replies, both Patrick and Pete.

greetings,
Ludo


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Re: new user - spam issue

Pete Biggs

> About Pete's post and your comment on it:
> it is indeed inside Gmail that the problem occurs, not in Evolution.

Ah, OK, I assumed because you posted on an Evolution list that it was
something you were doing in Evolution

>
> I simply - perhaps naively - assumed it might have to do with the
> Evo. install, since it happened at that same time.
> So, now I presume you will suggest that I investigate via the Gmail-
> forum instead of here?

Do you have any spam scanners running in Evolution? If not, then it's
nothing to do with Evolution. If you do, then telling Gmail that a
message is not spam will not affect the Evolution spam filters.

If you do have spam scanning enabled in Evolution then it may be the
cause of what you are seeing and I would strongly urge you to turn it
off.

P.


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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 16:06 +0200, Ludo Beckers via evolution-list
wrote:
> I simply - perhaps naively - assumed it might have to do with the
> Evo. install, since it happened at that same time.
> So, now I presume you will suggest that I investigate via the
> Gmail-forum instead of here?

        Hi,
once upon a time, there was a bug about marking messages as spam by
Evolution in error. I do not recall (m)any details, I'm sorry, just the
symptoms were similar. What it does for you, that the message is
considered spam even after you mark it as not being spam, is
suspicious. The thing is, whenever a message has a Junk flag set, it is
considered as junk/spam; when the IMAP account is configured to use a
real Junk folder (which is correct for Gmail), Evolution moves such
marked messages to the real Junk folder.

The question is how, and why, the messages are receiving the Junk
flag. 

I suggest to:
a) open the mail account Properties->Receiving Options tab and uncheck
   the option "Check new messages for Junk content" - as being said,
   Google provides pretty good spam filtering;
b) go to Edit->Preferences->Mail Preferences->Junk tab and disable junk
   options there. If you've Bogofilter or Spamassassin installed, then,
   if not used by anything else, I'd try to uninstall them. That should
   remove also the corresponding plugin from Evolution.

Junk filtering goes through usual filters, thus you can enable its
debugging, as described here:
https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/mail-filters-not-working.html

And/or run Evolution as:

   $ CAMEL_DEBUG=junk evolution

to get some debugging specific to junk filtering.

You can also enable IMAP debugging, to see whether the flags are set by
Evolution or by something else. I recall a use whom faced some similar
problem and it turned out that some other client had been setting the
flags and Evolution processed them accordingly (or "accordingly", if
you prefer). To enable the IMAP debugging you can run Evolution from a
terminal like this:

   $ CAMEL_DEBUG=imapx:io evolution

Note it logs raw communication between the server and the Evolution,
thus nothing you'd share in public. Just search it for "\Junk" (quotes
for clarity only). It might be there a lot of times, I think, unless
Evolution marks the message as Junk and immediately moves it to the
spam folder. You can also search for "COPYUID" (quotes for clarity
only), which contains a response after moving messages to some folder
on the same server. The move of the messages to the Spam folder, made
by Evolution, should be done with it.

        Bye,
        Milan

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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
> a) open the mail account Properties->Receiving Options tab and uncheck the option "Check new messages for Junk content"

That was already unchecked

> b) go to Edit->Preferences->Mail Preferences->Junk tab and disable junk options there. 

Here I unchecked "Check incoming messages for junk" and also "Check custom headers for junk"

As I said in the previous mail, I'm now thinking the problem is more likely to be inside Gmail?

I did do: 
   $ CAMEL_DEBUG=imapx:io evolution
and quickly browsed the outcome - looks like the only mention of "Junk" is as: (NonJunk)  (NonJunk \Seen)  (NonJunk \Flagged)  

greetings,
Ludo 

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Re: new user - spam issue

Patrick O'Callaghan
In reply to this post by Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 16:06 +0200, Ludo Beckers wrote:
> Sorry, I'll try to remember not to top-post on this list.
> I guess deleting all previous text, like I did now, is ok then?

Not really. The usual convention is to quote the part you are
commenting on, as I'm doing now. In Evolution this is the default
behaviour. To quote selectively, simply mark the relevant text before
replying.

Doing this in the Gmail interface is more difficult because Google have
followed the broken Microsoft Outlook style of reply. At one time there
was a Google Labs extension to fix this, but it hasn't existed for a
couple of years now so you have to do it by hand. That's why I use
Evolution for mailing lists. Gmail doesn't really support lists in the
traditional sense, e.g. there is no concept of "Reply To List", just
"Reply To All", which is not the same thing.

poc

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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 17:02 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
To quote selectively, simply mark the relevant text before
replying.

wow, that is neat :-)
Thanks for explaining; I had no idea about this.

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Re: new user - spam issue

Patrick O'Callaghan
On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 22:23 +0200, ludo wrote:
> On Tue, 2020-05-12 at 17:02 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > To quote selectively, simply mark the relevant text before
> > replying.
>
> wow, that is neat :-)
> Thanks for explaining; I had no idea about this.

It's a fairly common feature of GUI email clients. In fact the Gmail
extension had it as well before they removed it.

poc

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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
In reply to this post by Patrick O'Callaghan
so now I finally received an answer from the gamil-help:
>Asked help in Evolution-forum, but probably the error is in Gmail.
 
>Nope.  Gmail can't move old message to spam (only NEW message when they first arrive).  
>The problem is the Evolution e-mail client doing it's own spam filtering and moving messages around in Gmail (on the server).  You need to turn off it's spam filtering.

But.. I don't see any filter that is turned on in Evolution..?

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Re: new user - spam issue

Gnome Evolution - General mailing list
On Thu, 2020-05-14 at 00:07 +0200, ludo wrote:
so now I finally received an answer from the gamil-help:
>Asked help in Evolution-forum, but probably the error is in Gmail.
 
>Nope.  Gmail can't move old message to spam (only NEW message when they first arrive).  
>The problem is the Evolution e-mail client doing it's own spam filtering and moving messages around in Gmail (on the server).  You need to turn off it's spam filtering.

But.. I don't see any filter that is turned on in Evolution..?
Aha.. In Evolution I selected all messages in the Spam-folder and marked them as legit - a few seconds later the spam-folder is empty
and immediately after that also the spam-folder in gmail is empty.
Relief..


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